- Title: Hard to stomach: U.S. veterans say they fought a lost cause in Afghanistan
- Date: 20th July 2021
- Summary: GARDEN GROVE, CALIFORNIA, UNITED STATES (RECENT - JULY 9, 2021) (REUTERS) (SOUNDBITE) (English) JASON LILLEY, 41-YEAR-OLD AFGHANISTAN WAR VETERAN, SAYING: "One of the fights we got into, we took some prisoners and held onto one of them in particular, and I forgot his name, but high level dude and we all rotated. We got him back to our main base and we all took turns watching this guy. You know, he had to be watched at gunpoint, you know, hour by hour. So it was my time and it was kind of late at night, you know, late maybe, if not early morning and it was my time with this guy and I had an interpreter with me too. So it was my time to be intimate with a guy, you know, and ask him questions, stoke some dialogue. So, and the guy was an open book, so it was basically just like you and I were talking. Like, so what's the deal, man? Like, what do you think about all this? And it was like human to human. Like I wasn't, you know, harassing the guy, I wasn't trying to be a dick, offered him water, coke, food, and he could sleep on the bed. He slept on the ground, he didn't want anything to do with the bed. So, you know, the way I was raised, I wanted to, you know, represent America in a good way and just, just talk to the guy. So I was like, you know, what do you think of this war? And he's like, you know, you guys aren't going to win. The dude was very blunt. You know, you're not going to win. We've been here forever. You guys have time constraints, you have money constraints. We will be here long after you leave. You will be out of here at some point and our lives will continue and you'll be gone. And that was 2009 and here we are, you know, 2021, July 15th, right around the corner and he's right."
- Embargoed: 3rd August 2021 10:59
- Keywords: Afghanistan Taliban U.S. withdrawal troops war veterans
- Location: GARDEN GROVE, CAIFORNIA, UNITED STATES/KABUL, LOGAR, WESH AND BADAKHSHAN PROVINCE, AFGHANISTAN/UNIDENTIFIED LOCATIONS, AFGHANISTAN
- City: GARDEN GROVE, CAIFORNIA, UNITED STATES/KABUL, LOGAR, WESH AND BADAKHSHAN PROVINCE, AFGHANISTAN/UNIDENTIFIED LOCATIONS, AFGHANISTAN
- Country: USA
- Topics: Conflicts/War/Peace,United States,Military Conflicts,Editors' Choice
- Reuters ID: LVA006EMJ0PJB
- Aspect Ratio: 16:9
- Story Text:CONTAINS PROFANITY
Jason Lilley was a special operations forces Marine Raider who fought in multiple battles in Iraq and Afghanistan during America's longest war.
As Lilley, 41, reflects on President Joe Biden's decision to end America's military mission in Afghanistan on Aug. 31, he expresses love for his country, but disgust at its politicians and dismay at the blood and money squandered. Comrades were killed and maimed in wars he says were unwinnable, making him rethink his country and his life.
"A hundred percent we lost the war," Lilley said. "The whole point was to get rid of the Taliban and we didn't do that. The Taliban will take over."
Biden says that the Afghan people must decide their own future and that America should not have to sacrifice another generation in an unwinnable war.
Al Qaeda's 9/11 attacks on America triggered a nearly 20-year conflict that led to more than 3,500 U.S. and allied military deaths, the deaths of more than 47,000 Afghan civilians, the killing of at least 66,000 Afghan troops, and over 2.7 million Afghans fleeing the county, according to the nonpartisan Costs of War project at Brown University.
"Was it worth it? It's a big ass question," said Lilley, who was on the front lines of America's Global War on Terror in Iraq and Afghanistan for almost 16 years.
He said he deployed believing troops were there to defeat the enemy, stimulate the economy and uplift Afghanistan as a whole. They failed, he said.
"I don't think one life was worth it on both sides," Lilley said as he described his service and his perspective in an interview at his home in Garden Grove, southeast of Los Angeles.
Lilley is not alone in reflecting on the U.S. withdrawal after nearly 20 years of war. Many Americans are. The perspectives of Lilley and other veterans can help inform the country about the costs of entering war and the lessons to be learned from Afghanistan.
Lilley's opinions are his own and some veterans differ, just as Americans generally have different estimations about a war that improved women's rights and led in 2011 to U.S. Navy SEALS killing al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in Pakistan.
Biden's withdrawal has bipartisan support. A July 12-13 Reuters/Ipsos poll showed only about three in 10 Democrats and four in 10 Republicans believe the military should remain.
Lilley and other Marines who served in Afghanistan and who spoke to Reuters compared it with the conflict in Vietnam. They say both wars had no clear objective, multiple U.S. presidents in charge, and a fierce and non-uniformed enemy.
Part of Lilley's support network is Jordan Laird, 34, a former Marine scout sniper who described completing combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, which Laird and others called
While in Afghanistan, Lilley said he grew to understand why historians have called it the "graveyard of empires."
Britain invaded Afghanistan twice in the 19th century and suffered one of its worst military defeats there in 1842. The Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989, leaving after 15,000 of its troops were killed and tens of thousands were wounded.
The U.S. Marine Corps referred Reuters to U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM), the military command in charge of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, when asked about Lilley's comment.
In an email, CENTCOM had no comment about Lilley's criticisms.
A turning point in Lilley's thinking came when a Taliban prisoner told him the Taliban would wait out the United States and knew Americans would lose faith in the war, just as the Soviets did.
"That was 2009. Here we are in 2021, and he was right," Lilley said. "Why did we lose guys? Why?"
Back from the battlefield, Lilley, physically fit and heavily tattooed, said he could not even look at the U.S. flag for several years because he felt so angry that his country had sent him and his colleagues to an unwinnable war. He says he has seen several mental health counselors, but his greatest support network is fellow veterans.
Lilley is vice president of the veteran-operated Reel Warrior Foundation, which gives veterans a chance to break from the struggles of re-adapting to civilian life by taking them on fishing trips.
He said he is disappointed that the United States does not seem to have learned lessons from Vietnam, where 58,000 American troops were killed in a war that failed to stop Communist North Vietnam taking over the entire Vietnamese peninsula.
"We should avoid war at all costs," Lilley said. "Don't rush into the racket of war, into the machine of making money, contracts. A lot of people made a lot of money off of this."
He said it took him years to let go of his anger.
"I mean I knew what I was getting into, I mean I grew up on Rambo. I wanted to honor my family in the sense my grandfather fought in War World Two, I wanted to go down that same route and do the selfless thing, but it turns into reality quickly."
(Production: Alan Devall, Tim Reid)
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