TRUTH COMMISSION: re: Amnesty application by Col R Venter [Vlakplaas unit] TESTIMONY REGARDING MURDER OF THE PEBCO 3

Record ID: 893659

  • Title: TRUTH COMMISSION: re: Amnesty application by Col R Venter [Vlakplaas unit] TESTIMONY REGARDING MURDER OF THE PEBCO 3
  • Date: 22nd October 1996
  • Summary: TRUTH COMMISSION: re: Amnesty application by Col R Venter [Vlakplaas unit] TESTIMONY REGARDING MURDER OF THE PEBCO 3
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  • City: JOHANNESBURG
  • Country: South Africa
  • Reuters ID: 96OCT22R03
  • Story Text:TRUTH COMMISSION HEARINGS AT CITY HALL JOHANNESBURG re: Amnesty application by Col. R Venter

    14.39.21 COL VENTER SITTING DOWN AFTER TAKING OATH
    14.39.47 READING STATEMENT RE: CAREER BACKGROUND
    14.40.30 ...I performed clandestine work in Pretoria while I was with the Security Headquarters 1979 to '83...
    14.41.02 WORKED UNDER COMMAND OF BRIG CRONJE UNTIL AUGUST 1985 - TRANSFERRED C2 SECURITY HQ
    14.41.41 ...the Sanhedrin worked as follows EXPLAINS
    14.43.03 C1 was the unit which operated from Vlakplaas..C2 was the unit which operated from HQ & they were concerned with interrogations of arrested terrorists...
    14.44.32 AT REGIONAL MEETINGS - at these meetings targets were identified and prominent people involved...we compiled a list of names of these people so that we could have a priority list...
    14.45.23 COMMISSIONER ASKING WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION WAS IN PRIORITY LIST
    14.45.56 ...the priority list contained targets and this dealt with installations in other countries which were used as bases from which MK members infiltrated the country...
    14.46.19 ...internally...safe houses and transit houses where activists were sheltered and where prospective candidates who were about to go for training were accommodated...
    14.47.06 WHAT WAS INTENDED TO BE DONE TO THESE PEOPLE? That's where the role of Special Forces...there were actions outside as well as inside the country...
    14.47.28 ..I'm not aware of what type of attacks these were but there were attacks on houses and internally on residences of activists and that is the type of information which was collected at these monthly meetings...
    14.47.45 BUT YOU TALKED ABOUT LISTS OF PEOPLE NOT HOUSES?
    14.48.10 ...there was target analysis about these houses...
    14.48.21 THERE WERE ATTACKS AGAINST HOUSES AND BUILDINGS - ARE YOU SAYING THERE WERE NO ATTACKS AGAINST PEOPLE - THAT THIS LIST WAS NOT FOR THE EXTERMINATION OF PEOPLE?
    14.48.33 No I think you have misunderstood me. The 2 lists operated jointly. The persons names on the list and he was identified as a target then necessarily the place where he lived would be investigated and analysed so that it could be attacked.
    14.48.54 THERE WERE NO ATTACKS AGAINST PEOPLE?
    14.49.04 No. Attacks were directed at people.
    14.50.05 ARE YOU AWARE THAT TO QUALIFY FOR AMNESTY YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE PREPARED TO MAKE FULL DISCLOSURE OF EVERYTHING THAT YOU KNOW?
    14.52.52 WAS THERE A LIST OF PERSONS WHO WERE TO BE INTIMIDATED BY MEANS OF DAMAGING THEIR PROPERTY TO FRIGHTEN THEM, AND A DIFFERENT LIST WHERE THE PRIORITY WAS TO ACTUALLY ELIMINATE THOSE PEOPLE BY KILLING THEM?
    14.53.04 No there was only one list. Therte weren't various lists of people.
    14.53.53 ...an attack on a person would be planned by the regional commander because these regional commanders also attended the monthly meetings...
    14.54.28 IF AN ATTACK WAS MADE ON A HOUSE WITHOUT THE PERSON ON THE LIST BEING THERE - WOULD HE HAVE REMAINED ON THE LIST OR BE TAKEN OFF THE LIST?
    14.54.25 He would have stayed on the list.
    14.54.47 re: DESTRUCTION OF DOCUMENTS
    14.55.09 JUST BEFORE NEW GOV IN POWER HEAD OFFICE ISSUED ORDER TO DESTROY DOCUMENTS - DON'T KNOW WHO ISSUED ORDER BUT SUSPECT THAT IT WAS VIA THE INTELLIGENCE SECTION
    14.55.22 ...during that period General le Roux was the Commanding Officer of the Security Branch and the instruction was that all documents which could impliate & hurt the security branch & informers files in which people's identities could be revealed, should be destroyed...
    14.56.29 EXPLAINING HOW HE WAS RAISED
    14.57.08 RE BRIG CRONJE'S TESTIMONY REGARDING THE GENERAL ORDERS THAT WERE GIVEN DURING PERIOD OF UNREST & RIOTS - DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? Yes I do.
    14.58.15 LAWYER ASKING TO INCLUDE APPLICATION FOR AMNESTY FOR MURDER BUT COMMISSIONER REPLYING THAT THEY CAN'T GIVE AMNESTY FOR MURDER IN GENERAL - MUST KNOW HO THE VICTIM IS WHERE IT HAPPENED BECAUSE HE COULD HAVE MURDERED A FAMILY MEMBER - MUST BE POLITICALLY MOTIVATED
    15.01.37 RE: PEPCO 3 During this event Col Jack Cronje was the commander at Vlakplaas. I was directly undre his command and control. A number of members of Vlakplaas was given the instruction to go to the Eastern Cape particularly Port Elizabeth since the politically related unrest was taking place there & our help was needed with the suppression of the unrest.
    15.02.17 We were instructed to take along a group of Askaris...to identify possible infiltrators. When we as members of Vlakplaas was sent to other regions we were placed under the command of the regional commander & received direct instructions from the region's offices.
    15.02.40 I remember that the following Vlakplaas members went along namely: Gert Beerslaer, Joe Mamesela, Johannes Kule, Piet Mogai, Pegge Radebe and other black members whose names I can't remember [NOTE NAMES ARE PROBABLY INCORRECTLY SPELLED]
    15.03.19 ...as we found and arrested these activists, we handed them over to the local security branch for further action...
    15.04.19 ...I was asked to along with the askaris to the airport to pick up the 3 men...Captain Sakkie van Zyl...came along...
    15.04.42 ...the purpose of the operation was to interrogate them gain information, remove them out of the area and neutralised their involvement. I did not know at that time that there had been a decision that they were to be eliminated by being killed.
    15.04.59 We drove to the airport...Lt Deon Neuwoudt also went along...
    15.05.21 ...the askaris easily picked them up at the airport and took them away with a combi to the agreed meeting place...
    15.05.47 ...the 3 activists...had caps over their heads which were entirely covered...
    15.06.44 ...a day or two later we went to Cradock...to the place where the 3 captives were...
    15.07.48 ...I did not take part in the interrogations but gathered that the 3 were later to be eliminated since their bakkie had already been destroyed...
    15.08.07 ...I was not involved in the interrogation of the 3 persons nor was I involved in any assaults or intimidation or any other action against these 3 persons. I was also not involved in the removal of the bakkie.
    15.08.22 I'm not entirely sure what happened to these 3 persons...
    15.08.54 ...I do not remember that an instruction had been given that they were to be killed but do however know that from time to time that activists...were eliminated and then disappeared. It was necessary to eliminate activists of such stature...
    15.09.46 ...Sakkie van Zyl's instructions must have come from General Nick van Rensburg...
    15.11.06 ...the motive was in every case to gain information...
    15.11.58 ...the act was necessary to intimidate...
    15.12.37 ...methods of interrogation was well-known methods throughout the security forces...
    15.13.32 TAKING A BREAK
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