SPECIAL PARLIAMENTARY DEBATE re: Mandela'sì statement to Senate - instructed the ANC securityì to protect Shell House even if people are to beì killed DANIE SCHUTTE [NP] cont.; CLARENCE MAKWETU [PAC]; BALEKA KGOSITSILE [ANC]; MINISTER MZIMELA [IFP]ì SMANGALISO MKHATSWA [ANC]; REV K MESHOE [ACDP]; DRì ZIBA JIYANE [IFP] 00.01.02 SCHUTTE: ...every reasonable request wasì attended to & implimented where it was possible... 00.01.29 ...the Goldstone Commission in itself isì the best evidence of the previous gorv commitmentì to open an honest gorv....absent at this stage isì the ANC's side in detail... 00.01.58 ...that demands a transparent judicialì commission now! END SPEECH SCHUTTE 00.02.11 CLARENCE MAKWETU [PAC] 00.02.48 ...we in the PAC believe that the policyì of reconciliation we are all preaching, has doneì more than anything else to make the first year...aì fairly peaceful one... 00.03.24 ...if the doors of Shell House wereì immediately opened after this incident, they wouldì not be still asking questions... 00.05.04 ...everyone has a right to self-defenceì but for the same person to prevent the police fromì investigating the shooting, is a mute pointì [ORDER!]... 00.05.47 YOUR TIME HAS EXPIRED - MAKWETU CUTTINGì SPEECH SHORT 00.06.05 SPEAKER CALLING ORDER TO NO AVAIL 00.06.50 BALEKA KGOSITSILE [ANC] 00.07.53 ...I want to ask the NP why has theì investigation into the Goniwe killing taken 7ì years? [APPLAUSE] 00.08.33 DEATHS OF 54 fitted perfectly within theì intensions of a Third Force that only Pres Mandelaì alone had been raising as a matter for graveì concern for some years... 00.11.06 ...indeed there are many good people inì the IFP as there are in any other party [ORDER]ì but...[SOMEBODY IS RISING ON A POINT OF ORDER] 00.13.24 ...why the police had not responded toì requests of the ANC to avert an attack on Shellì House? The truth is...we were dealing with hostileì security forces under directives of a hostile NPì gorv. 00.13.50 ...we owe no apology to anyone forì protecting lives. END SPEECH 00.14.04 MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES, MR SEì MZIMELA [IFP] 00.14.55 SIDE ANGLE WIDE SHOT 00.15.51 ...it really doesn't matter who killedì them - we are talking about people who died... 00.16.27 ...if we can do something about theì future we better really be careful how we handleì this present issue... 00.19.08 END SPEECH 00.19.14 FATHER SMANGALISO MKHATSWA [ANC] 00.20.01 PRAISINGMANDELA FOR TAKING RESPONSIBILITYì FOR HIS ACTIONS AS LEADER OF ANC 00.20.44 ...an impression is being created thatì the President was physically present & gave anì order to attack...that is not true... 00.21.20 QUESTIONS TO NP IFP 00.22.30 ...was the Pres of the ANC justified inì giving instructions to defend Shell Houseì effectively? ...Yes! 00.22.48 MANDELA HAD THE RIGHT & DUTY TO DEFEND 00.26.57 END SPEECH 00.27.04 REV K MESHOE [ACDP] 00.27.55 ...why did it take the President moreì than a year to reveal the fact that he gave ordersì to kill people in defence of a building that wasì not under siege? What was his conscions sayingì when there were accusations & counter-accusationsì in this parliament about who was responsible forì the massacre? 00.28.14 Is it possible that he might still haveì some more info about the happenings of that day, ì - unless proven to the contrary by a Commission ofì enquiry - it seems the President may be implicatedì in a cover-up, an obstruction of justice as heì denied the police entrance into ANC HQ's.... 00.28.41 ...this ....revelation can only beì corrected by a public repentance of the Presidentì himself, not only to the nation, but with the veryì families that have been affected.... 00.29.04 ..the ACDP supports...a judicialì commission of enquiry in order to settle thisì matter once and for all... 00.29.13 Proverbs ..."righteousness exalts aì nation but sin is a reproach thereof" 00.29.28 END SPEECH 00.29.33 DR ZIBA JIYANE [IFP] 00.29.52 ...by his statement that people mustì shoot to kill if necessary, did he mean that theì security guards could leave Shell House building &ì climb the balcony of a shopping centre...and fromì that balcony fire the fatal shots that killed theì first marchers... 00.30.18 ...did he mean that after the first shotì ...the guards infront of Shell House should runì towards King George street where the ambushì occurred first & if police sought to stop them,ì they should abuse, insult and point a 9mm pistolì at the chest of the policeman who sought to stopì them? 00.30.33 ...did he mean that the ANC securityì guards could use illegal assault weapons likeì AK-47 makaroffs to shoot & kill zulu marchers whoì dared to pass next to ANC offices? 00.30.46 If the pres believed that the ANC guardsì acted in self-defence....and not break the law,ì why did he stop police from searching & obtainingì the weapons used at Shell House for ballisticì tests? 00.31.19 ...he obstructed justice... 00.31.35 IS THE HONOURABLE MEMBER PREPARED TO TAKEì A QUESTION? 00.31.38 No I'm not prepared!